Unless you just crawled out from under a rock recently, you are aware of the significant decline in the West Fork elk herd. Now, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks (MFWP) has made a bold move for the upcoming 2011 Bitterroot elk season by limiting elk hunting in the West Fork to a draw permit basis only. MFWP will issue 25 tags, limited to brow-tined bull elk for the 2011 season. The only other area of the state with a permit-only elk hunt is in the Gallatin region, but permits there are unlimited. There will be know legal cow harvest in the West Fork in 2011.
Declining Elk Numbers
Regional Wildlife Manager Mike Thompson said the latest West Fork survey took place in April of 2010. It indicated a population of 764 elk. The peak elk population was 1914 in 2005. Thompson attributed the sudden decline in elk to predation by wolves, lions and bears. MFWP Commission recently applied to the US Fish and Wildlife Service for permission harvest wolves in the West Fork as a means to combat the declining elk population.
Bitterroot Elk Study Hopes to Find Cause of Elk Decline
Bitterroot Elk Study got under way last weekend. The study promises to isolate the cause of the declining elk numbers in the southern part of the Bitterroot National Forest. The study is scheduled to take 3 years to complete. Unless there is a dramatic change in Federal wolf policy, I wouldn’t expect a return to unlimited hunting in the West Fork for several years. The only hope on the horizon is the plan to attach a wolf amendment to the budget bill. The amendment would remove the possibility of Judge Molloy continuing his involvement in the wolf issue. Successfully adding the wolf amendment would essentially be “game over” for Judge Molloy and the environmental groups that have kept wolves under Federal management through numerous court challenges.
Regardless of the immediate future of wolves and other predators, elk hunters are likely to have significantly reduced hunting opportunities in the West Fork for a number of years.
is the best book explaining the radical environmental movement and the effects on us all.
is must reading for anyone concerned about the direction America is currently headed.
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
bob, you are incorrect on some of the information you have. Gray wolves in Montana ARE not an invasive species. Craig, the biologist you are going to be seeing in a few days for the study of elk in thebitteroot has even said they are the same species. Instead of spreading misinformation on blogtalk radioshows, wanna you ask craig his opinion of non native wolves and he will flat out tell you they are a native species in Montana.
molly
I never said gray wolves were an invasive species. I said, C. l. occidentalis is an invasive species in the Bitterroot as well as Yellowstone. I have consulted many experts in this field, including but limited to Craig, and there is ZERO misinformation on this website. The American Society of Mammalogists which follows taxonomy of Mammal Species of the World used by the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of Natural History says, “The current taxonomy identifies C. l. irremotus as the wolf subspecies that historically occupied the Northern Rocky Mountain area. The range of C. l. irremotus abutted the ranges of C. l. occidentalis and C. l. columbianus some distance north of the Canadian border.”
We know C. l. occidentalis has recently come down into northern Montana. This is the reason they are under the full protection of the ESA while the introduced numbers of C. l. occidentalis to the south carry a “non-essential” designation that allows the killing of animals attacking livestock or having a negative effect on game populations. C. l. occidentalis may have occupied areas of northern Montana in the past. Their range NEVER extended into the Bitterroot, though. So, C. l. occidentalis is an invasive species in the Bitterroot. They are NOT the same species that was native to the Bitterroot, period. Now, it is becoming clear that C. l. occidentalis was introduced in areas where there was still a remnant population of C. l. irremotus. This action could and probably will cause the extinction of pure C. l. irremotus in their native range. I find this development very disturbing and criminal in nature.
That’s not true Bob. Gray wolves from Canada have been crossing the invisible barrier to get into Idaho and Montana for decades. This is something that all biologists in Montana and other places agree on. They are the same exact gray wolf as the ones before.
http://idahoptv.org/outdoors/shows/wolvesinidaho/niemeyer.cfm
There are those who say we brought the wrong wolves into Idaho in 1995 and 1996, that they’re bigger wolves than the ones that were here.
I have to support the science again, and specialists in morphology and genetics on wolves indicate that the wolf that was brought down from Canada is the same wolf that lived here previously. And I did some research into books on early wolves that were captured in the Northern Rockies, even as far south as Colorado during the days that wolves were being hunted down in the 1930s; and the body weights were very much the same.
So I feel that this wolf that was brought from Canada is the same species and genetics as the wolves that lived here once upon a time. I think people have to remember that the northern Rockies — we call it the northern Rockies in Idaho and Montana, but actually we’re a southern extension of the northern Rockies out of Canada — and all of those wolves in Canada have the potential and the ability to disperse. I believe what happened over the last 50-60 years is that individual wolves have come from Canada following the Rocky Mountain chain and ended up periodically in places like Montana and Idaho.
Molly
I was pointing out the official stance of the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of Natural History. I don’t doubt C. l. occidentalis crossed into northern Montana throughout time but they didn’t extend their range as low as the Bitterroot or Yellowstone.
One of the big misconceptions is the size difference between the native, C. l. irremotus, and the introduced, C. l. occidentalis. C. l. occidentalis is larger but not by much. We’re talking about 10-20 lbs larger on average. The big differences are C. l. occidentalis has evolved to chase their prey over vast distances. Caribou herds travel thousands of miles during migration and the wolves follow. C. l. occidentalis lives and hunts in large packs, sometimes 16-20 animals. The NATIVE subspecies to the Bitterroot lived and hunted in pairs. They didn’t form these large packs of animals. That is scientific fact.
These are not the same wolves. You are mistaken. I have arranged an interview with one of the nations leading wolf experts that will air later this week in an effort to clear up all the wild stories and misinformation being thrown out by both sides of this controversy.
The fact is C. l. irremotus is the native wolf to the Bitterroot.
C. l. occidentalis crossed into the very northern part of Montana and may have interbred with C. l. irremotus at times. Although, the Smithsonian Institution’s National Museum of Natural History stands by the assumption that C. l. occidentalis met with C. l. irremotus north of the current Canadian border not in Montana.
The most disturbing thing to me is there may have been some remaining C. l. irremotus wolves in the area but the USFWS went ahead and introduced C. l. occidentalis right over the top of them. If this is true, there should be criminal prosecutions forthcoming on this issue.
Many top wolf experts claimed, and the American Society of Mammalogists criticised the project’s lack of deference to the principle of Bergmann’s rule, pointing out that the wolves used for the introduction were 30% larger than the original park wolves, and were adapted to much colder climates. Finally, the society questioned the legality under the ESA of “recovering” a taxon of wolf by expanding the historic range of a less similar type, when more closely related founder stock still remained available.
Are you familiar with Dr. Val Geist?
He admitted that there were wolves south of Yellowstone before wolf reintroduction. Do you know where these wolves came from Bob? Canada. Biologists/experts do not look at subspecies as it means nothing. Gray wolves are gray wolves. These wolves from Canada were in the northern rockies way before wolf reintroduction as we know wolves migrate from Canada into the northern rockies from time to time.
Molly
First, please put all your thoughts in one comment instead of opening 6-7 different comments. Thank you.
I don’t know what experts you are talking about but all the experts I have read use taxonomy (subspecies). Each subspecies evolved in different areas with different prey. They are not the same and a gray wolf is not a gray wolf. Of course there were wolves south of Yellowstone. There are wolves in Mexico. C. l. occidentalis wasn’t south of Yellowstone. And the Endangered Species Act recognizes that a gray wolf is not a gray wolf. There is a specific part of the ESA that REQUIRES the use of the most closely related SUBSPECIES if the NATIVE subspecies is extinct. If the native subspecies is not extinct then it must be used. Now, some information is coming out that C. l. irremotus may have not been extinct, yet USFWS introduced C. l. occidentalis anyway, in clear violation of the law if indeed C. l. irremotus was not extinct.
Other very well respected biologists warned against introducing C. l. occidentalis. They were of the opinion. C. I. nubilus was a much closer relative and being such would be required by the ESA to be the subspecies used for introduction.
Kind of ironic you point to science until the science doesn’t fit your argument.
Bob, that is incorrect. Do you know of Val geist? Here is what he has to say and pay attention closely because you might learn something here.
GEIST: It may be worth mentioning that the wolves were actually well on the way from coming all on their own from Canada into the western states. There were wolves killed already south of Yellowstone and that was well before the re-introduction ever took place into Yellowstone. So they were coming on their own and the re-introduction just simply speeded things up.
I guess that crushes your argument that there were no wolves south of Yellowstone.
Molly
I asked you nicely to place all your thoughts in one comment. This is bordering on SPAM now. If you read what Geist says he says nothing about the past. He is referring to the migration just prior to introduction. Read that again and tell me where he is talking about the Canadian wolf being south of Yellowstone in the distant past.
Once the NATIVE wolf was gone it only stands to reason another subspecies would migrate into the vacuum left behind.
There are no experts, other than yourself of course, that ignore taxonomy. Taxonomy was one of the biggest arguments the scientists working on introduction had in determining which stock to pull the transplant animals from. Not one real scientist says a gray wolf is a gray wolf. Maybe some of the bought and paid for frauds will say what they are told by their employers but any scientist with an ounce of credibility recognizes there are VAST differences between subspecies.
By the way here is some information from Dr. Geist:
Question; Speaking of animal kills, there is controversy with the wolf advocates over claims that Wolves kill for sport . . . Does this really happen?
GEIST: There’s no question about that that this is part and parcel of the nature of wolves. When they have the opportunity to kill in excess, just simply kill and leave, kill and leave, and go on killing, they will do so. This has nothing to do with Yellowstone wolves, Russian wolves — this is a universal characteristic of wolves, period. By the way, grizzly bears will do the same thing. Colleagues have observed them in the Arctic when they were killing calves of the caribou herd. They would just run through the caribou herd killing one calf after the other.
Graves (another PhD): Wanton killing is when maybe a wolf will just accidentally stumble on a white tail deer or something and will just kill it for the sport, just one game animal. I call it wanton killing. Surplus killing is when maybe a few wolves, maybe three or seven, will kill 30, 40, 50, a hundred sheep in a two or three-hour period. That’s what I call surplus killing.
Our Elk herds can really sustain this kind wanton killing. Wolves are also known to rip the fetus out of an elk and leave the mother to die and go to waste.
Question; Let’s focus now on the most important part of Mr. Grave’s 1993 letter to Ed Bangs – that of the threat of serious disease spread by a deadly parasites carried by the Gray wolf . . . What is it called?
GEIST: It is a parasitic infestation, hydatid echinocchal granulosus, (E. Granulosis) a disease that can infect humans and other mammals.
KRITSKY: Dr. Geist is exactly correct, E. granulosus is, also in my opinion, the much more dangerous strain as it is highly infective to man and is also a parasite of sheep and domestic dogs which much more easily brings the parasite into homes in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming, where human beings can be exposed.
Question; What is the actual damage of E. Granulosus to human beings?
KRITSKY: Although usually a “dead end” for the parasite, human beings serve as an intermediate host for echinococcus species. The tapeworms may form cysts within many vital organs of human beings, which could result in organ failure. Unfortunately, symptoms of tapeworm are generally seen late in the infection and associated with organ failure, which can result in serious illness or death of the individual.
GEIST: It is indeed a silent disease, is difficult to diagnose, with displays little specificity in symptoms. It can reside in the host for over 10-20 years. Depending on the location and number of cysts, it can range from being benign to, as Dr. Kritsky states – lethal. It is particularly dangerous to anyone engaged in an active, sporting lifestyle, since blows to the body can lead to rupture of cysts with dreadful consequences, and prolonged, costly treatment.
Question; I’ve noted that various wolf advocates imply this issue is nothing more than a “bogeyman” argument thrown out by the “wolf haters” along with claims that the risk of infection is “one in million” that people around dogs simply need to wash their hands and such and all is well.
GEIST: All is not well. There has been a recent flurry of activity by various government agencies to issue position papers, memoranda and the like on the disease. One can’t help notice the discrepancy in the accounts of hydatid diseases, between those reported by these agencies as opposed to scientific assessments issued by clinicians.
HOPPE: I’m really concerned. I have children and grandchildren in my house and on my property, there can be a high concentration of wolves. Shouldn’t this be of concern for somebody like the CDC (Center for Disease Control?) How worried should I really be?
GEIST: Bill, first of all you are facing a very severe threat, in fact, it is a threat primarily to children in the rural areas of Montana, northern Wyoming and Idaho and Oregon and Washington eventually.
That is one reason wolves have been eliminated in ALL areas of high human population throughout the world. Talk about misinformation. You want misinformation, just look to the crap being put out by Defenders of Wolves (can’t say wildlife because they will sacrifice any other wildlife for wolves).
By the way, I am working hard on getting an interview with Dr. Geist to expose the truth but when that happens, I’m sure you all will find reason to discredit Dr. Geist.
I want you to be able to post here but one more blast of several comments and you will be banned from further posting.
Bob, they are the same wolves. I’m sorry you don’t want to accept this. All of the top wolf biologists in the world agree that the wolves in Canada are the same exact ones wiped out in the northern rockies all those decades ago. Do you think you know more than Dave Mech about wolves? You say gray wolves in Canada are a non native species, but Mech says they aren’t? I’ve talked to all of the most well known most respected wolf biologists there are and ALL of them have told me that gray wolves in Canada are the same exact ones as the ones that were killed off. When is this interview going to be and where can you listen to it online??
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/feb/17/actual-wolf-weights-often-skimpier-than-hunters/
ome opponents of wolf reintroduction claim that the Canadian gray wolves released in Yellowstone National Park and central Idaho in the mid-1990s are a larger, more aggressive subspecies than native wolves, which were extinct by the 1930s. Biologists say there’s little or no evidence to back up that assertion.
“I’m curious that they throw out those numbers – that the Canadian wolves are 50 to 100 pounds bigger than the native Idaho wolves,” Husseman said. “I don’t know where those numbers come from.”
Hayden said the most authoritative research on wolf subspecies comes from a former U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service zoologist, Ronald Nowak, who studied 580 historic skulls of full-grown male wolves. Nowak concluded that North America had five subspecies of gray wolves. Two subspecies had historic ranges in Idaho – the Rocky Mountain wolf and the Great Plains wolf.
The Rocky Mountain subspecies outweighed the Great Plains wolf by about 20 pounds, Hayden said. But their ranges overlapped in the Idaho Panhandle, according to Nowak’s research.
“Realistically, there’s no difference between the subspecies. They interbreed,” Hayden said.
In addition, “we’ve got wolves that are walking here from Canada,” he said. “They’re the same species that would have been here in the past.”
If you don’t want to learn the real facts Bob, fine. You can’t say that I didn’t try educating you on the real truth. bye
“Two subspecies had historic ranges in Idaho – the Rocky Mountain wolf and the Great Plains wolf.” right from your post!!!
Or otherwise known as C. L. irremotus (Rocky Mountain wolf) and C. L. nubilus (Great Plains wolf)
Those are the FACTS Molly! C. L. occidentalis is not mentioned and is the wolf INTRODUCED. I suggest you not pull crap out of context to try and manipulate things to your point of view. C. L. occidentalis is not NATIVE to the Bitterroot or Yellowstone and there is a difference. And Dr. Geist was referring to C. L. occidentalis migrating just recently. Read the whole conversation that was taken from and not just the short blurb you posted to take it completely out of context.
Molly
The only one who is unwilling to accept the truth seems to be you.
Just because the resident wolves from Canada may have come here, you jump to the conclusion they are C.L. Occ.
Do you have any idea how far North the subspecies line is…or I should say was as it has now been convoluted by intermixing subspecies.
There are studies out there showing this information. Just because it wasn’t convenient doesn’t mean they can just deny it and change the facts.
Even Ed Bangs has admitted to actual physical differences in these wolves, he just wishes to say they are irrelevant. Of course he has a lot to protect in saying that now doesn’t he.
This was a much contested debate even before introduction as many biologists didn’t think that occ was the correct fit. But Ed and gang wanted to make sure they got the biggest wolves possible.
I do agree that this Canadian wolf is larger, hunts in larger packs, kills prey for sport. I have read that our goverment and Definders of Wildlife where told this when they ask Canadian Biologist their opinion about bringing this wolf here. They also said they have lost entire elk herds to these wolves in Canada. Alot of people here in the United States are reacting threw emotions from all the lies and propaganda they are hearing instead of the facts about these predators, and what they are really all about. This whole thing as I have also read before is the worst crime ever committed on our native wildlife. The sportsmen in this country are the only true conservationist in this country.
For an animal to be protected under the Endangered Speices Act it has to be indengist to the territory. This Canadian wolf is not endangered in its home range. This Canadian wolf is not indengist to the United States so for these wolves to be protected under the Endangered Speices Act is abuse of this Act. We where told a total of 300 to 450 wolves where all that the ungulate herds could handle in Idaho, Montana,and Wyomning and still maintain the herd numbers. Did you know that at one time there where around 5000 tags for elk migrating out of Yellowstone. There where O tags this last season. You see I’ve done my homework. I’m not an armchair outdoorsman either. Unlike these armchair bioloigist that brought these Non-native evaisive wolves here that are destroying our native wildlife. Canadian bioloigist told these wolf idiots and our government not to do this. What’s happening here to our native wildlife is exactly what the Canadian’s said would happen. I’ve been in Montana the past 3 years and have seen what’s happening, it’s very sad. You see most people are not doing that, but maybe I’m not as guliable as most people. I do beleive most people don’t have a clue when it comes to wildlife or the outdoors anyway. I have alot of my own experinces outdoors and have seen things not many other people ever have or will.